O2 systems

[John Lawton]

Hey guys,

Can any of you west coasters offer any recommendations regarding O2 systems to a lowlander? I have fairly extensive experience with respiratory therapy equipment from when I was partner in an engineering firm that provided field service on this type equipment (ventilators, anethstesia, apnea monitors, etc). I like the theory of operation of the Mountain High systems, but I'm just starting to look for a system and I'm not aware of everything that is out there.

Any suggestions? What about bottle size? Is O2 availability at more remote places like Minden and in the Owens valley a problem?

I know I need a 2 place system. Beyond that, what I think I'm looking for is a system that would support two people at 17,999' for at least a couple of hours or more.

Thanks!

John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Ximango #135

[Ron Snedecor]

Hi John,

I've only been using O2 in gliders for about two years now so I don't have a long history. But out west here (California/Nevada/Utah) as Rob said oxygen is a must. I chose the Mountain High system after talking with a number of glider pilots that had been using it since it came out and were quite happy with it. I got the EDS O2D2 Kit with the Kevlar bottle which I have been very happy with. It's the two place system with light weight bottle and transport/backseat pack. The total weight of the bottle, regulator, and EDS box is about 2.5 lbs empty. With the 11 cu ft bottle I can get about 7 to 8 hours for one person at 18,000 ft. The EDS system is not constant flow. It senses the very beginning of a breath intake and instantly puffs a measured flow of O2 (automatically adjusted for altitude or manually set) into your nose The kit is rather pricey at about $1500 but you can get just the EDS box or go to a less costly tank. If you're coming west only occasionally I wonder if you can rent O2 systems somewhere? I don't know.

As for oxygen refills Bishop does have oxygen at about $30 a fill. I haven't found any other places to refill south from Bishop in the Owens Valley along the Sierras. The best place I've found so far is at Minden. Both SoarNV or Soar Minden do refills for about $19.

Hope to see you at Minden. Wish you would stop by the Parowan meet. This is the place I got my education about motorgliders. It's great soaring (again O2 a must) and beautiful over the Bryce and Zion National Parks. Some even go as far as Lake Powell, Monument Valley and the Grand Canyon. Ely Nevada is another soaring hot spot and is about half way between Minden and Parowan. You could join in with the Ximango group that apparently is planning on meeting at Cedar City about 25 miles south of Parowan. I hope you're not confusing the Auxiliary-powered Sailplane Association with the other ASA, the Arizona Sailplane Association.

Ron Snedecor
Cable Airport (KCCB)
Upland Calif.
Ximango #115

[John Lawton]

Hey Ron,

Thanks for the info! That's what I needed to know.

The Mountain High system uses technology very similar to a modern ventilator, sensing the start and end of a breath, etc. Modern vents can also slowly make the patient work harder to breathe on their own so the RT can ween them off of it. If you don't do this the body quickly adapts to being fed each breath and it gets harder and harder as time goes by to get the patient off the vent.

I would want my own system. I'm hoping to reset the Tennessee altitude gain record when the opportunity presents itself. The current record is a little over 17,000' and was set out of my field back in the late 80's. (not by me, though) There's also some decent wave flying that goes on in the spring over at Mt. Mitchell in NC. The ground ops where they tow from over there can and do get pretty wild I'm told, but I can sneak into the wave from upwind and hopefully avoid all the turbulence that I've heard exists when the wave is on down where they tow from in the lee of Mt. Mitchell. Occasionally it gets good enough over there for them to request a wave box. I've heard of flights upwards of 24,000 msl when it's really on. So, it makes sense for me to have my own O2 system. Mt. Mitchell is only an hour or so away from my strip.

The Sequatchie wave here over the valley where I am sets up almost directly over my field when it's the secondary south wave, or about 3-4 miles away for the secondary northwest wave. Pretty convenient. Ordinarily not that high, I got to 12,200' msl back last May in the south wave. That's pretty typical. Occasionally, though, we can get a pretty high bounce off the Cumberland Plateau if the weather gods allow. I keep a pretty close eye on it. When the opportunity does present itself I'd like to be ready to go find the top, rather than having to bail at 14K because I don't have O2.

Which ASA is it that will be at Parowan? Not that it really matters, I just heard it was usually crowded and I've never been a big fan of crowds and airplanes. If I go that far I will at the very least stop by and say howdy to the Ximangophiles regardless of where they are flying. Looks like around 1600 nm one way for me, so another couple hundred here or there won't matter. I really would like to fly in the Owens if it's good, though. I built cellular out between Bishop and June Lake back in the 80's. I caught myself drooling a couple of times over how high cloudbase gets there. Been wanting to go back ever since.

Anyway, thanks again for the info. Just what I needed to know.

Regards,

John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Ximango #135

[Cliff Goldman]

Hi John --

I'll second Ron's recommendation. Our club (Albuquerque Soaring Club, ASC) has MH equipment in the club gliders & I just bought one for my Ximango. I had a Skyox but the MH is so much more convenient -- just set what altitude you want it to come on (I set it at 10,000) and forget it. I kept the Skyox aluminum cylinder and added the O2D2 controller & cannulas.

If you fly out this way, drop in at 1N1 (ABQ sectional) & taxi up to the house. We'd love to have you stop by. Just let us know when you're coming. If its weekend, we'll go down to Morarity (0E0) -- ASC and Sundance Aviation will be launching. We get booming thermals and pretty decent wave off the Monzanos and Sandias. A good wave day can take you from El Paso up into Colorado. Be warned though -- the asphalt at 1N1 is only 30' wide, 5280' long and 6550' MSL -- looks like landing on a pencil.

Cliff Goldman

[Ron Snedecor]

John,

The meet at Parowan is the Auxiliary-Powered Sailplane Association. It's not one of those blood thirsty competitive type groups but just a laid back bunch that shares the love of soaring. There is an optional competition that some join in on but it's very low key and not mandatory. Maybe about 1/4 to 1/3 of the about 40 planes that show up participate in the competition. There's no particular schedule. The only requirements are to have a good time, fly safe, and decide what time dinner should be the next night depending on how good the soaring is. The majority of the aircraft are self launching gliders and there is also a bunch of motorless gliders. The minority so far is the touring motorgliders. Usually we get some Stemmes, a Ximango or two (three last year) a Carat, and sometimes Lambada. People come from all over the United States, Mexico, Canada, Europe, and last year we had a guy from South Africa. It's not crowded or crowds. The airport is well designed for parking, staging and launching gliders. Some people camp out on the airport. There are very few power planes on the airport. Parowan is a friendly, sleepy little country town nestled against some beautiful red cliff mountains to the east and the people love having the glider groups in town. The Days Inn in Parowan is very suitable and almost always has rooms available without reservations at our group rate of about $50. If you don't want to do the whole meet just drop by for a couple of days there's usually plenty of food at the evening hangar dinner. Depending on how many touring motorgliders show up at Cedar City it should be fairly quiet there. Hopefully there will be a good turn out. The town is a much larger college town with all the fast food franchises.

I agree with you and Rob that the Bishop area and the Owens Valley has some great soaring and beautiful scenery. Last June Tom Muller and I managed around 500 miles in a day mostly straight line soaring north and south along the White and Inyo mountains on the east side of the Owens valley. Out of Minden we can quite often soar down to the Owens Valley or at least June Lake and back in a day.

Ron Snedecor

[Steve Sliwa]

The MH systems is great. I added it to my built-in Cirrus system in series (as recommended) and tripled the life of my oxygen when flying that bird at altitudes. I have taken it to 24K but I felt like that was my limit for sure. It is incredibly comfortable on cannula up to 18K. Takes about 5 minutes to get used to making it puff in your nose.

We had to use O2 when soaring in Parowan. We had one thermal with 3 Ximangos and we all got to about 17K. That was a great sight.

[John Lawton]

Hi Cliff,

Thanks for the offer. I will definitely keep it in mind. Back in '07 when I sold my Pawnee to a guy in Oregon I met him at Moriarty. While there I met the guys with Sundance. They treated us both like kings. Mighty fine hospitality.

Ron, thanks for the details. All this sounds like great fun, especially when my home area is usually wet and stormy that time of year.

I'm planning to attend Sun-n-Fun in Florida this year. The owner is a former hang glider pilot and we have a lot of mutual friends scattered about. They always have a booth at S-n-F. I'm planning on going down for S-n-F with the intention of coming home with an O2 system this year. I have received approval from "she who must be obeyed" for both the O2 system and the trip. It's a downhill slide from here.....as long as the chain don't break and the creek don't rise......

Regards,

John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Ximango #135

[Rob Morgan]

Hi to John and others,

Sorry for this late response (I don't get on-line on a regular basis). I concure with Ron Snedecor's response and suggestion of an MH EDS system with the Kevlar bottle. A bit pricey, but a very nice system that should have you and your accomplice breathing well at 17,999 for 4 or more hours. It's portable and can be used in other aircraft as well. I use the exact same system and find that it meets my needs quite well.

One other note, there is a shop in Bishop (very close to the airport) where I've had my bottle filled for $15. It's the same place where Rod (guy who used to sell O2 at Bishop to pilots) goes to get his bottles filled.

Rob

[Ron Snedecor]

Hey Rob,

I usually get into Bishop at least a couple of times a year. Do you recall the name and/or approximate location of the place where you get your oxygen refilled there? Also I believe you are planning on getting to Bishop about July 3rd or 4th do you know how long you will be there and where you're planning on staying? I'm still putting together my plans for the coming season but will definitely be doing the Minden and Parowan meets.

Ron Snedecor

[John Lawton]

Hey Guys,

Okay, Mountain High EDS system in hand and ready for some high altitude action!

Now all I need is a decent weather window in late June to get across the plains states without encountering baseball sized hail.

See you guys in June!

Regards,

John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Ximango #135